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“Dangers of Fascism Today”
TENC editor Jared Israel interviewed on Republic of Srpska TV

[Posted July 2, 2009]

Notes by Samantha Criscione and Jared Israel

To access the video of the interview with Jared Israel, please go to


On May 5, 2009, the Republic of Srpska TV program Nekad Bilo (It Once Was) broadcast an interview with former Ambassador to Israel Arie Livne, and Jared Israel, editor of TENC and member of the International Commission on Jasenovac. The subject: “Dangers of Fascism Today.”

Jared Israel spoke in English with a simultaneous Serbo-Croatian translation; watching the video (see link below), one hears both.

To assist English-speaking viewers, we transcribed Jared’s remarks along with an English translation of the relevant questions from interviewer Siniša Mihajlović (pronounced See-nee-sha Mee-hail-o-vich), indicating the times these appear in the video. The transcript is posted below, with a table of contents. (We regret that we do not have an English translation of Arie Livne’s remarks.)



Nekad Bilo
May 5, 2009
Radio-Televizija Republike Srpske (RTRS), Banja Luka
Interview with Arie Livne and Jared Israel, “Dangers of Fascism Today.”

To access the video of the interview with Jared Israel, please go to

Table of Contents of the Transcript

I. What are the characteristics of Fascism?

II. Intellectuals and Fascism; the role of the Catholic church in preparing the ground for Nazism

III. The role of the Catholic hierarchy in promoting clerical-Fascism; proof is provided regarding Croatia

IV. The Catholic hierarchy is again aggressively promoting clerical-Fascism, for example sponsoring the Ustaša rock star, ‘Thompson’

V. Are the PLO and Hamas fighting for national liberation or a modern form of Nazism?

VI. The Vatican foments Nazi-type Fascism in the Middle East

VII. The Vatican has been and remains the key force in the breakup of Yugoslavia

(Explanatory text in brackets added by TENC.)


I. What are the characteristics of Fascism?


[Time on video] 6:18 – Siniša Mihajlović: Mr. Israel, you have been working as a journalist for a long time, and you are very well informed about Fascism and all its forms. You know about these forms of Fascism, and our people may not know enough about this. So, how was Fascism, and also the idea of Fascism, started, and what are its characteristics?

6:42 – Jared Israel: Well, that’s a very big question. But to take the most developed and advanced, so to speak, form of Fascism, which is Nazism, and the variations, such as the Ustaše in Croatia and the Fascist movements in the Baltic states and so on: at the heart of that Fascism is a mixture of racism, intense racism, especially against the Jews, but not only against them, and, secondly, often religious fanaticism – especially Catholic fanaticism with the Ustaše and in the Baltic states, in Slovakia and so on – often clerical-Fascism. So we have a mixture of clerical fanaticism and also this intense racism, especially, foremost, directed all around against Jews, and then in various areas directed against other groups, especially against Slavs and Roma. So in the Baltic states against Russians and in World War II Croatia of course against the Serbs.

Did you want to ask a little more on that question or is that—


II. Intellectuals and Fascism; the role of the Catholic church in preparing the ground for Nazism


8:05 – Siniša Mihajlović: Oh, yes, I do. How is it possible that an idea like that, in that moment, could find supporters among intellectuals in a society?

[Note: Jared Israel was answering based on a translation that he heard through a small mike attached to his ear. He reports that either his translator translated the question as “Why didn’t intellectuals oppose Fascism,” or, in any case, that that is how he heard it. So he is answering the question: “Why didn’t intellectuals oppose Fascism?”]

8:25 – Jared Israel: Well, in many cases such intellectuals are dead. I mean, that’s what happened in Germany. Many intellectuals did oppose the Fascist movement: the Communists opposed it; the Socialists opposed it; and a segment of the Center Party, which was the Catholic party, the left of it or the antifascist part of it, opposed it. And many of them ended up killed very quickly. The Communists first in Germany in 1933 were killed, and then many Socialists, and so on.

I think the other side of the question is, ‘why would masses of people fall for this?’ Because the ideas of racist Fascism, of clerical-Fascism, are such nonsense really.

And I think the answer is that there’s been extensive propaganda beginning in the 19th century rooted in people’s religious beliefs that presented— especially presenting Jews as a menace to all Gentiles, as cruel, heartless people who always stick together, a group of insects with one mind, and whose goal is to destroy Gentile society, who simultaneously have complete control of it and are always trying to get complete control of it. Because, of course, if they have complete control the story is over. So to mobilize people in fear of this terrible menace you have to keep— you have to say that they are continually trying. And that was put forward by a movement that developed after the [time of the] Civil War in the United States, in which [movement] the Catholic church and the Jesuit magazine Civiltà Cattolica played a leading role, you know, putting forward this stuff very, very explicitly, that Jews were plotting. In one of the articles in Civiltà Cattolica they said that if a Gentile does something wrong he has to apologize; a Jew has to apologize if he does a good deed, because his teaching is, ‘you must always hurt Gentiles.’ [See footnote [1] for our English translation and the original Italian text of the article in question.]

So these ideas were put into people’s heads over and over in a million ways by this movement that developed long before there was any Fascism. So that the ground was ploughed and watered, whatever, you know, the basis was laid. And that’s the critical question. And many people of course did oppose Fascism, and many people died opposing it, I mean, that was one of the things that happened.

Germany was not a country of reaction. It was a country which was viewed as the most progressive in the world. And one of the things that the Nazis did in Germany, of course, was they destroyed German culture and they eliminated it, literally, by killing many of the finest people, and so on.


III. The role of the Catholic hierarchy in promoting clerical-Fascism; proof is provided regarding Croatia


16:08 – Siniša Mihajlović [to Arie Livne.]:
If I can please ask you – that part about World War II – to go back to that, the idea of Fascism, Nazism, and all that hatred in this area. We saw recently the commemoration of Jasenovac [the Croatian death camp]— how many people died among Jews, Serbs, and Roma in a quisling country like Independent Croatia, which was born and developed based on the idea of Fascism.
[2] I would like to ask you how you look at that idea. How was it possible, such a systematic killing of everyone who was not Croatian? And is that idea new, or is it something which has its roots in history?

[Note: We have included the above question, although it is to Arie Livne, because Jared Israel answers it below.]

23:25 Siniša Mihajlović: Mr. Israel, what kind of neo-Fascist, Nazi, or neo-Nazi groups— in what form do they exist in the world today?

23: 42 Jared Israel: You do ask big questions, don’t you? I want to say something else about Croatia, because I do a lot of research in the past media, studying the newspaper reports from the time. You find a lot from that. And one of the papers I use the most is The New York Times, which is a very authoritative source from the West. And I have— this is a— I don’t know if you can see it, but this is the headline of an article in The New York Times, in February 1941.
24:18 – The camera shows Jared Israel holding a copy of a newspaper article with the headline, “Vatican Aid Sought For Croat Patriots. Yugoslav Prelate Is Said to Ask Freedom for Jailed Priests. By Telephone to THE NEW YORK TIMES. Belgrade, Yugoslavia, Feb. 16[, 1941]” (capitalization as in the original).

To read the complete text of this article with analysis by Jared Israel, see “Did the Vatican do too little to hurt the Nazis? Or too much to help them?,” The Emperor’s New Clothes, at

24:20 – Jared Israel: So this was of course before the coup in Serbia on March 27[, 1941] and before the April invasion [i.e., the Axis invasion of Yugoslavia]. Now, the position that the Vatican has taken, that I have seen, on the Ustaše, was that they [i.e., Catholic clerics] were in a position where they were forced to cooperate with them [i.e., the Ustaše], because they had taken power and things would have been worse [if the clerics had not cooperated]. In fact, [Croatian Archbishop] Stepinac said that at his trial, also reported in The New York Times, that ‘if I hadn’t done what I did things would have been worse.’ He admitted, by the way, to mass forced conversions [of Serbs] in that trial, he didn’t deny that, he said, ‘My conscience is clear. I did the best thing that could be done.’

Headline and excerpt from the 1946 New York Times article reporting Stepinac’s casual confession.
"Stepinatz Refuses to Defend Himself; Admits Not Opposing Forcible Conversions but Insists Conscience Is Clear," The New York Times, October 2, 1946, Wednesday; Page 13, 264 words

The Archbishop admitted in questioning that "I had no reason to oppose" the work of a committee of three dealing with conversion matters, of which the prosecutor accused him of being the chairman. The evidence as taken from the Rev. Djuro Maritch, a former Ustashi captain who admitted that he had been sent to villages to carry out forced conversons. He said that the peasants had appeared frightened, but he had not seen actual oppression. [New paragraph] After this evidence, the prosecutor, referring to a large number of conversions, said to Msgr. Stepinatz: "Were you not surprised that several hundred thousand Serbs swung to Catholicism with an overnight discovery of an all-abiding and supreme faith?" The prelate answered: "Conditions were unusual."

– “Stepinatz Refuses to Defend Himself; Admits Not Opposing Forcible Conversions but Insists Conscience Is Clear,” The New York Times, October 2, 1946, Wednesday; Page 13, 264 words

To read the complete text of this article go to

25:00 – Jared Israel: So, the question is how then one explains that on February 16[, 1941] The New York Times runs a story, which has the headline: “Vatican Aid Sought For Croat Patriots.” [Note: the article was datelined February 16th but was published February 17th.]

And the Times called them “Croat Patriots” because the Times wasn’t trying to attack the Ustaše. But they were talking about the Ustaše, as the article makes clear. And what it reports is that:

“The Archbishop of Zagreb is intervening at the Vatican, asking the freedom of Catholic priests detained in Croatia in connection with the circulation of political literature.”

And then as the article develops it emerges that this “political literature” is that of the Ustaše. They say:

“Despite numerous rumors that the pamphlets and recent bombings at Zagreb are part of a single subversive effort to undermine Croat unity, police information on recent events in... ”]

[Jared stopped in the middle of reading a sentence. The rest of that sentence is:
“...the bombings case indicates that the time bombs were manufactured and planted by a separate Fascist organization, some of whose members are now imprisoned in the Croat capital.”]

[Jared pauses, listening to the translator, who is speaking to him through a mike attached to his ear.]
I am going a little too fast for my translator. Should I begin that paragraph again? OK. OK, I am being talked to by— I am being scolded by my translator. I’ll paraphrase it then.

What the article says is that, while certain Fascists groups have been bombing Zagreb at this time, the particular group, Pavelić’s group, the Ustaše, is not the one that was just arrested for bombings; it’s a different one. And that’s the group that the Catholic priests have been distributing literature for and were arrested in connection with.

Now, [we have] the then Archbishop of Croatia going to the Vatican to meet about the problem of priests arrested for Ustaša activity in February [1941]. What it demonstrates is that the Vatican was behind the Ustaša movement, this was— and that, I think, goes a long way to explaining Mr. Livne’s point, that the Croats responded with such passion [in support of the Ustaše.] Because [the late Croatian president] Tuđman once [i.e., in 1998] said that Croatia was a country in whose people the Catholic church lives, in their hearts.

So, if that was said after many years of Communist rule, imagine what it was like in 1941, when there was no opposition in Croatia, effectively, to the Catholic Church. And the Catholic church was inspiring people by having priests actually distribute the literature to support the Ustaše.


IV. The Catholic hierarchy is again aggressively promoting clerical-Fascism, for example sponsoring the Ustaša rock star, ‘Thompson’


27:56 – Jared Israel: So I think what is terribly disturbing in that connection is that today we have in Croatia, very publicly, the propaganda, really, of the rock star Marko Perković ‘Thompson.’ And ‘Thompson’’s songs are Ustaša songs, accompanied by “Za dom spremni,” [this Ustaša chant literally means, “For home, ready,” with “home” having a mystical-racist connotation] and, you know, the straight arm salute, which I refuse to do – which he leads, he leads, you know; he says “Za dom” and they say “spremni”, or they say “Za dom” and he says “spremni,” whatever – with children dressed in Ustaša uniform, looking bizarre but very frightening. [4]

And the [Catholic] church directly sponsored his failed concert in the spring of 2007 in Sarajevo to commemorate the pope’s visit [i.e., John Paul II’s visit in 1997]. The church tried to have the concert with him and there was tremendous protest including from various groups and it was called off. He then went on a tour of the world. In New York the cardinal was called upon to cancel his appearance in a church-owned property and refused, saying they could find no evidence of any Fascism in his songs. Now, these songs include material like the material in his song – I am going to mispronounce this probably – “E moj narode” (“Alas, my people”), which puts forward that there’s a plot of ‘Antichrists and Masons and communists.’

Now this is straight out of the Fascist and Nazi propaganda of the 1920s and the 1930s, where the “Antichrists” means ‘the Jews’; it’s just a code word, because if he says ‘Jews’ he’d get in a lot of trouble. But when he was in the Netherlands and he was asked about the cancellation of his concert he said, ‘Well, the people who canceled it killed Christ, so how can we expect them to be nice to a little man [such as I am]’.
[6] So we can figure out whom he is talking about; it’s not a mystery.

And the problem here is that this is sponsored by the church and manifestly sponsored by the [Croatian] government. I mean, he himself was a government creation during the war. During the early 1990s he was sponsored by the government, you know, to do propaganda songs to motivate the troops, and his songs are [inciting] hatred of Serbs. He has a song celebrating the genocidal driving of Serbs out of the Krajina. He has another song calling on the Croatians to cross the river and burn down Serbia. And he has this song, “Alas my people,” saying that an army is needed to stop ‘the Jews.’

So this is just a very modern, very effective form of Nazi propaganda. And it’s not just some neo-Fascist groupings, this or that neo-Fascist – every country has problems with these people – this is being promoted. He had a concert July 2007 – I think it was July 1 – on July 5 it was promoted on television in Croatia. [Correction: the concert was June 17, 2007; it was televised on July 2, 2007.] There was some opposition to that, and the board that controls the TV station, the board spokesperson, made a violent antisemitic speech, you know, blaming all problems on the Jews, and so on.
Picture of Jadranka Kolarević (on the right), a member of the HRT (Hrvatska Radiotelevizija – Croatian Radio-Television) Programming Council and president of the Croatian Consumers Association, denouncing ‘the Jews,’ following criticism of HRT for televising Marko Perković ‘Thompson’’s June 17, 2007 concert in Zagreb, Croatia. Among other remarks, Kolarević, who boasted of being at the concert, claimed World War II Croatia, which murdered most Jews, was actually run by Jews, and she attacked Israel as genocidal.

Source: Vecernji List, July 13, 2007. Originally posted at
Now archived at
Photo is as of July 4, 2009 still posted at:

31:58 – Jared Israel: This is being done on a very large scale. We have the problem now of the lifting of the excommunications of the bishops from the Society of St. Pius X [by Pope Benedict XVI]. The Society of St. Pius X puts forward that non-Catholic Christians are agents of the devil. My translator just asked me to repeat the last sentence. We have the lifting of the excommunications of the bishops of the Society of S. Pius X, a society which puts forward that non-Catholic Christians are agents of the devil and that Jews and Masons and Communists – the same line as ‘Thompson’ – are plotting to destroy Christians, and so on.


32:58 – Siniša Mihajlović: Mr. Israel, what I would like to know is how much do you write in your articles in Israel about all of these things that are happening, and how many people in Israel know about Yugoslav history and the wars in this last century – the First and Second World Wars and the war in the ’90s?

33: 27 – Jared Israel: Well, I write for a widely read [Israeli ] website, which is actually somewhat different from me politically, but which reaches a lot of people, which is called “Arutz Sheva.” I write for an English website that I edit, which is called “Emperor’s Clothes.” I do talk about the conflict in Yugoslavia. I am not in a position to judge overall how much people understand [in Israel], however I think [people understand] more in Israel than in most countries, I would say. I think that Mr. Livne is in a much better position to judge that.


V. Are the PLO and Hamas fighting for national liberation or a modern form of Nazism?


40:28 – Arie Livne: [Here Mr. Livne says, in essence, that Palestinian Arabs are engaged in a struggle for national liberation, which he views positively.]

44:55 – Siniša Mihajlović: Mr. Israel, I would like to know if there is any trace of Fascism in the conflict in Gaza because I think that conflict could become a much broader problem than it is today.

45:24 – Jared Israel: I think that there is— I have a somewhat different perspective [from Mr. Livne.]

I think that there is a manipulation of Fascism. And I think Mr. Livne’s point about the United States having instigated the Iranian situation [Livne had said that the U.S. brought the Ayatollah Khomeini from France to Iran in the late 1970s] is true and very important to understand. I have studied that also, and people don’t seem to— are not aware of it. I think that’s very important.

But just to— the problem as I see it is that the situation in the Middle East is multi-layered. On the one layer we have the apparent demand for a national state. And yet the Palestinian movement continually avoids the opportunities to have a Palestinian state as, for instance, they could have had ten years ago with Barak: they had almost everything they wanted, and they refused and instead instigated violent actions.

I don’t think that the goal is to have an independent state. I think the goal is to destroy [Israel, which is] the second level; that is, a stated goal, both of the PLO forces of Fatah (which is Arafat, you know, the group that Arafat was the founder of) and of Hamas, is the destruction of the Jews. And [I think] that they have pursued that consistently, with different tactics.

The problem of viewing it simply as a national movement, on that level, is that the PLO has a charter which existed before the 1967 war. And in the first version of that charter, which was written at a time when the West Bank and Gaza were not occupied by Israel but were occupied by Jordan and Egypt respectively, at that time the charter states that ‘we make no national claims about the West Bank and Gaza.’ It explicitly states that ‘we make no national claims and we make no pretense of interfering in the internal affairs of Egypt and Jordan regarding those areas.’

As soon as Israel won the 1967 war and took these areas from which they had been fired on – because they [i.e., Arab gunmen] were firing on kibbutzim from these areas as part of the provocation that was going on – as soon the they [the Israelis] took control of these areas, then the PLO discovered that they were a nation in these exact areas. Even though, explicitly, the national demands had been only [concerning] Israel proper before that, now the national demands were about the West Bank and Gaza.

So, this is movable state, in which— [Jared pauses here as the translator speaks to him via the mike attached to his ear.] Am I going too fast Mr. Translator?


VI. The Vatican foments Nazi-type Fascism in the Middle East


48:31 – Siniša Mihajlović: What does that actually mean? Does it mean that somebody just wants a perpetual war in that region, or does it mean that when we have all these people and organizations trying to destroy Jewish people— does it mean that it’s a Fascist movement?

49:13 – Jared Israel: Well, you are raising two very big questions. On the first question, the question whether there are forces that wish a permanent war, I think that different forces wish different things. I think that overwhelmingly the Israelis want peace. Somebody made the joke that if the Arabs disarm, there would be peace tomorrow, and if the Israelis disarm there would be no Israel tomorrow. So you see, [one leads to] no war, [the other leads to] no Israel. Israelis want peace, [Israelis] of all stripes, all political [sides]; they want to be left alone. There are many different segments of Arab society which do want to destroy Israel and I think there are outside forces that are fishing in troubled waters for various motives, at various times, for various reasons.

Now, one of those forces – to get back to the theme I brought up before of the instigation of Fascism by the Vatican – is the Vatican. Because the Vatican has a very important goal in terms of Jews. It is very important to the Vatican— the existence of an Israeli state was an offence to the Vatican. You may recall, the Vatican did not recognize Israel until the 1990s. When Israel defeated— having been— having ‘had it,’ as in the American expression— finally invaded Lebanon and came close to destroying the PLO, whereupon the Americans and the French rescued the PLO and took them in humiliation – it was from Tripoli, correct? – within weeks the pope, John Paul II, invited Arafat, publicly requested that Arafat meet with him. Now, the pope does not publicly beg people to meet with him, but he did publicly beg Arafat to meet with him, casting him in the role of Jesus in a Passion play— not to— again, I don’t say that to offend anyone, but— that image of the suffering man beset by evil forces. He brought him to the Vatican and made a hero out of him and sent a signal to the European states, which are mostly Catholic states, after all, that this was a man to be supported. A few years later he gave the PLO its own office in the Vatican, literally, an office in the Vatican. And – so that Arafat later thanked him publicly for all he had done – made the recognition of Israel conditional on Israel’s negotiation with the PLO as its partner.

“Pope John Paul II caresses the head of Palestinian President Yasser Arafat 19 December 1996 at the Vatican” – AFP

The caption of this Agence France Presse (AFP) 1996 photograph reads:

“Vatican City, Vatican – December 19, 1996: Pope John Paul II caresses the head of Palestinian President Yasser Arafat 19 December 1996 at the Vatican. Arafat arrived in Italy 19 December and immediately went into talks with Pope John Paul II, expected to focus on the stalled Middle East peace process. Arafat, holding his fifth meeting with the head of the Roman Catholic church since 1982, flew into Rome from the Albanian capital, Tirana, and would also discuss preparations in Bethlehem for the 2000th anniversary of the birth of Jesus Christ.”

(Photo credit: Giulio Broglio/AFP/Getty Images)

People often forget that before the PLO came back to the Middle East – and [unfortunately] Israel welcomed them back – the Israelis had negotiating partners in the West Bank and Gaza with whom they were working and who acted in a civil fashion. And— a little too fast. [I.e., the translator had just said, in Jared’s ear, that he was going too fast.] Before Arafat was brought back to the Middle East and was made Israel’s negotiating partner, the Israelis were working with people in the West Bank and Gaza who wanted— who had disagreements but wanted to live in peace. Arafat killed many of them when he came back. This bringing of Arafat [back to the Middle East] and making him the partner – the man who called for the destruction of Israel! – the partner for peace, was forced on Israel by the United States and the Vatican, primarily those two forces.

So, you have both a propaganda of Fascism, I think, because a lot of the propaganda found among Palestinians both from Hamas and the PLO is straight out of Nazi propaganda, Protocols of Zion, you know, images of Jews that could be from Der Stürmer, the German Nazi publication in the 1930s, Jews feasting on dead people and so on. This is pumped into the children in this area and it is Fascist in my opinion.

But at the same time [there is] a manipulation by very, very powerful forces who promote these people.

So it’s a very big problem Israel has, because it is dealing with enemies who are to a certain extent puppets – to a certain extent, though with motivations – and I think the motivation is what is very— I don’t think there is much difference between the propaganda that these— look, they put— Hezbollah makes television programs out of medieval stories of Jews sucking the blood out of Gentiles to make matzahs, and they put them on [TV].

These are not Arab stories. These are not stories that originated from Muslim society. These are either old, Catholic antisemitism, or Nazi stories. So, I think there is Nazism, but I think also people— powerful forces [are] fishing in troubled waters.


VII. The Vatican has been and remains the key force in the breakup of Yugoslavia


55:10 – Jared Israel: And I think powerful forces are fishing in troubled waters in Yugoslavia. I personally do not think Yugoslavia would have had the problems it had, if the Croats had not been— I have a picture of the pope celebrating the wedding anniversary of Tuđman and his wife in May of 1991, one month before [Croatian secession].
Source: Photo series, “Predsjednički dani Franje Tuđmana,” picture #1, published November 27, 2006, accessible as of July 4, 2009 at 
Backed up with screenshot taken July 4, 2009 at
The picture shows Croatian secessionist (and, in our opinion, clerical-Fascist) leader Franjo Tuđman (pronounced ‘Tudjman’) and his wife Ankica, meeting with Pope John Paul II.

Re-published in 2006 on the website of Vecernji List, a leading Croatian daily, the picture originally appeared in the very important month of May, 1991. Why “very important”?

The Serbo-Croatian caption translates:

“25 May 1991. The meeting with the Holy Father happened exactly on the 46th anniversary of the [Tuđman’s] marriage and the 45th birthday of their son Miroslav.”

By having this very personal celebration, the pope was intimately endorsing of Franjo Tuđman. But that was not all.

On June 25, 1991, Tuđman’s pro-Ustaša government would announce Croatia was seceding from Yugoslavia, thus launching the Yugoslav wars. By providing an intimate photo op at this critical time – one month before secession – the pope was telling ordinary Croats and the world: “The Vatican is with Tuđman,” thus giving visual support to the propaganda claim made worldwide, that the Tuđman clique represented the pope, meaning Christianity, against evil communist Serbs.

Following Croatia and Slovenia’s declared secession, the Vatican and leading Catholic clerics and politicians of the Catholic Right conducted a war of words against Yugoslavia and the Serbs, who were resisting the destruction of Yugoslavia.

At this time (the Summer and Fall of 1991), in order for people in the Yugoslav republics to feel some confidence in defending their country, it was crucial that they see people outside Yugoslavia demanding that their governments oppose Yugoslavia’s destruction.

The Vatican propaganda offensive was intended to prevent this, creating, instead, an anti-Serb, anti-Yugoslav hysteria in the West; and it was as part of this effort that the right-wing Catholic politician and U.S. presidential hopeful Pat Buchanan wrote several columns including the jewel quoted below, in which he demanded that Germany immediately invade Yugoslavia – again! (They had done so in 1941, as you may recall; the Serbs certainly did.)

What Buchanan says below was echoed worldwide by leading Catholic clerics (e.g., Cardinal O’Connor in New York) and by the Catholic Right, perhaps most importantly in Germany. Coming in mid-Fall 1991, when there was no longer anything resembling an organized, authentic Left anywhere to counter it, this onslaught had an immense effect on Western public opinion at this crucial moment, when Yugoslavia was being broken in two, setting the stage for the further shattering that was to come.

Here is an excerpt from Mr. Buchanan:

[Excerpt from Pat Buchanan’s Nov. 12, 1991 column starts here]

Croatia is not some faraway desert emirate. It is a “piece of the continent, a part of the main,” a Western republic that belonged to the Hapsburg Empire and was for centuries first line of defense of Christian Europe. For their ceaseless resistance to the Ottoman Turks, Croatia was proclaimed by Pope Leo X to be the “Antemurale Christiantatis,” [sic! Should be ‘Christianitatis’] the bulwark of Christianity. But the New Europe is about money, not faith, and she has turned her back on the pope’s plea to come to the aid of her persecuted brethren.

Where are the Germans? Are they so paralyzed by guilt over Hitler’s crimes they cannot order up a couple of divisions to chase Milosevic’s army back to Belgrade? Would it not be a triumph for the West and freedom if a German army were seen driving to the rescue and liberation of a beleaguered Balkan people, as French and Italian warships broke the Dubrovnik blockade? After decades of tutelage and probation, it is time Germany assumed the duties that come with being the greatest free nation in Europe.

And the Americans? [...] Croatia is only 200 miles from Bavaria and the U.S. Army. Why is the liberation of autocratic Kuwait more important to the West than the liberation of democratic Croatia from Stalinism?” [Etc., etc.]
[My emphasis –J.I.]

– “Western leaders Fiddle While Croatia Burns,” by nationally syndicated columnist Pat Buchanan. Chicago Tribune Service, November 12, 1991.
This article was published in major newspapers throughout the U.S.

[Excerpt from Pat Buchanan’s Nov. 12, 1991 column ends here]

55:34 – Jared Israel: Now, that picture was shown all over Croatia.

I have a picture of two years ago of the pope meeting with Đapić [pronounced ‘Japich’; ‘j’ as in ‘judge’], who is the head of the Party of Rights, you know, the descendant of Starčević and Pavelić
[11], embracing him because he had a gallbladder operation. A special aide to the pope was sent to the town that Đapić was mayor of and brought him to the Vatican, and then this was shown all over Croatian television.
Source: Vecernji List, July 5, 2007. Originally posted at
Now archived at
Photo is as of July 4, 2009 still posted at:
According to the accompanying article in the Croatian daily, Vecernji List, Archbishop Antonio Tricarico (described by the Vatican as an official of the Vatican Secretariat of State, emeritus), visited Anto Đapić in Osijek, Croatia, where Đapić was mayor, then brought him to see the pope, who blessed him on the eve of a gallbladder operation. (The Vecernji List article is posted in the original Serbo-Croatian in footnote [12])

Anto Đapić is head of the Croatian Party of Rights (Hrvatska stranka prava – HSP), which claims to be the heir to the party of that name, whose leadership created the Croatian Ustaša, the clerical-Fascist group that murdered over two million people in Croatia and Bosnia in World War II.  Reborn in secessionist Croatia in the 1990s, the HSP provided shocktroops for violence against Serbs and all antifascists. In the April 12, 1997 New York Times article, “Fascists Reborn as Croatia’s Founding Fathers,” Chris Hedges describes Đapić’s performance at an HSP election rally:

[Excerpt from April 12, 1997 N. Y. Times article starts here]

The old fascist marching songs were sung, a moment of silence was observed for all who died defending the fatherland, and the gathering was reminded that today was the 57th anniversary of the founding of Croatia’s Nazi-allied wartime government. Then came the most chilling words of the afternoon.

“For Home!” shouted Anto Dapic [sic – should be Djapić or Đapić], surrounded by bodyguards in black suits and crew cuts.

“Ready!” responded the crowd of 500 supporters, their arms rising in a stiff Nazi salute.

The call and response – the Croatian equivalent of “Sieg!” “Heil!” – was the wartime greeting used by supporters of the fascist Independent State of Croatia, which governed the country for most the Second World War and murdered hundreds of thousands of Jews, Serbs [and most Roma!] and Croatian resistance fighters.

– “Fascists Reborn as Croatia’s Founding Fathers,” by Chris Hedges, The New York Times, April 12, 1997, Saturday; Section 1, page 3

[Excerpt from April 12, 1997 N. Y. Times article ends here]

56:05 – Jared Israel: Now, these messages to ordinary people are not lost on them.

59:16 – End of program


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Footnotes and Further Reading


[1] Jared is paraphrasing a March 1881 article from La Civiltà Cattolica, a Jesuit publication started in 1850 by order of the pope and directly controlled by him: each issue was read and edited prior to publication by the pope. (Today La Civiltà Cattolica is vetted by the Vatican Secretariat of State.)

Since this Civiltà Cattolica article, quoted below, is a vicious attack on Jews – one of many such attacks by La Civiltà Cattolica over the past century and a half – let us clearly state: contrary to what La Civiltà Cattolica claims, the Talmud never incites Jews against non-Jews and never argues that it is OK to mistreat non-Jews, or anything of the kind.

The Civiltà Cattolica slander quoted below was part of a campaign aimed at a) indoctrinating ordinary people to believe their problems (indeed all problems) were caused by ‘the Jews,’ laying the basis for them to support the worst anti-democrats, who demagogically played on fear and hatred of Jews, and b) legitimizing violence against Jews and anyone else who said Jewish people deserve normal human rights.

Here is the English translation of the first page of this nine page article, followed by the original Italian text.

Thanks go to Michelle R. for locating and scanning this and other Civiltà Cattolica texts.

[Excerpt from La Civiltà Cattolica starts here]


Florence, 10th March 1881.

ROME (Our correspondence) — Of Jewish hate both theoretical and practical against the non-Jewish human race. How Jewish law now is contained not in the Bible but solely in the Talmud. How much therefore it is necessary for everyone to know what the Talmud commands the Jews against the non-Jews.

The whole essence of modern Judaism, that is of the antisocial, antihumanitarian, and above all anti-Christian Talmudic-rabbinic law, which the Jews are now observing, believing that they are observing Mosaic law, consists essentially in that fundamental dogma of it, according to which the Jew neither can nor shall ever recognize as his neighbour anyone else but a Jew. All the others, either Christians or non-Christians, must be considered, by every good Jew observing his law, as non-neighbour, non-brothers and more than that as enemies, hateable, persecutable, and, if it is possible, exterminatable from the face of the earth. And this by religious commandment, which they believe ordered by God himself through the Talmud and the Rabbis. So that when a Jew, either by force or by interest or even by nature not entirely perverted by his religion, observes towards a non-Jew some precepts of the natural law, with this very act he believes that he is committing a sin against his religion and his conscience. Precisely the opposite of what happens to non-Jews. Who are aware of sinning when they violate the precepts of natural law even towards Jews. In which [fact] consists the reason for the essential difference, antipathy, hostility and contradiction that always existed between the Jewish race and all others infested by its presence. Although in fact at times it looks as if some Jews were better than some Christians, nevertheless because of this very fact, as Jews, they are worse. Because, if the Christian violates his law, by doing harm, the Jew violates it by believing he is doing good. And when the Christian repents of the sin, then the Jew must repent of the goods deed. [...]
[Note: Emphasis as in original. All text in brackets added by the translator – S.C.]

La Civiltà Cattolica, Journal Section: Cronache Contemporanee. Dal 25 febbraio al 10 marzo, Issue: ser. 11:5 (1881), pp. 727-735; p. 727
Translation by Samantha Criscione

Copyright 2009. This translation may not be reposted or otherwise published in any form without the permission of Samantha Criscione. To inquire, write

[Excerpt from La Civiltà Cattolica ends here]

The original Italian version of the excerpt above reads as follows:


Firenze, 10 marzo 1881.


ROMA (Nostra corrispondenza) — Dell’odio ebreo sì teorico e sì pratico contro il genere umano non ebreo. Come la legge ebrea non si contenga ora nella Bibbia ma nel solo Talmud. Quanto perciò sia necessario che tutti conoscano ciò che il Talmud comanda agli ebrei contro i non ebrei.

Tutto il nervo del moderno Giudaismo, cioè della legge antisociale, antiumanitaria e soprattutto anticristiana talmudica-rabbinica che gli ebrei ora osservano credendo di osservare la legge Mosaica, consiste essenzialmente in quel suo domma fondamentale, secondo il quale l’ebreo non può nè dee riconoscere mai per suo prossimo altri che un ebreo; tutti gli altri o cristiani o non cristiani dovendo essere da ogni buon ebreo osservante della sua legge considerati come non-prossimo, non-fratelli ed anzi come nemici odiabili, perseguitabili e sterminabili, se fosse possibile, con qualsiasi mezzo dalla faccia della terra. E ciò per precetto religioso che essi si danno a credere intimato da Dio medesimo per l’organo del Talmud e dei Rabbini. Cosicchè quando un ebreo, o per forza o per interesse od anche per natura non del tutto pervertita dalla sua religione, osserva verso un non ebreo qualche precetto della legge naturale, egli con ciò stesso crede di peccare contro la sua religione e la sua coscienza. Al rovescio appunto di ciò che accade ai non ebrei. I quali hanno a coscienza di peccare quando violano anche verso gli ebrei i precetti della legge naturale. Nel che consiste la ragione dell’essenziale differenza, antipatia, ostilità e contraddizione sempre passata tra la razza ebrea e tutte le altre infestate dalla sua presenza. Quantunque infatti talvolta paia verificarsi che alcuni ebrei siano migliori di alcuni cristiani, ciononostante in ciò stesso, in quanto ebrei, sono peggiori. Giacchè se il cristiano viola la sua legge facendo il male, l’ebreo la viola credendo di fare il bene. E quando il cristiano si sente rimordere la coscienza pel misfatto, l’ebreo se la dee sentire rimordere pel benefizio. E quando il cristiano si pente del peccato, allora l’ebreo dee pentirsi dell’opera buona. [...]

[Note: All accent marks and emphasis, including
when used incorrectly, as in original – S.C.]

[2] Regarding the Ustaša death camp at Jasenovac, see the articles “Croatia” and “Jasenovac” in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, published by Yad Vashem in 1990 and posted on Emperor’s Clothes at

[3] In 1998, Pope John Paul II visited Croatia, where he beatified Cardinal Stepinac, who led the World War II Croatian Ustaša campaign to forcibly convert hundreds of thousands of Serbs to Catholicism. Just before the visit, the official Croatian news agency HINA reported the following remarks by Croatian president Tuđman:

[Excerpt from HINA dispatch starts here]

“The Pope’s visit can be seen as support for Croatia in the light of pressures by the international community, those circles that do not favour the independence of Croatia, a country supportive of the principles which the Catholic Church and the Vatican preach and advocate,” Tudjman said.

He described the beatification of Cardinal Stepinac and the arrival of Pope John Paul II as a backing of the democratic Croatia in which the Catholic Church has a full opportunity to work in the spirit of its principles and to the benefit of the people within which it lives.
[My emphasis – J.I.]

[Excerpt from HINA dispatch ends here]

– “Croatian President Assesses Importance of Pope’s Forthcoming Visit,” HINA news agency, Zagreb, in English 1719 gmt 27 Sep 98; Supplied by BBC Worldwide Monitoring, September 28, 1998, Monday; British Broadcasting Corporation, BBC Monitoring Europe – Political; 1310 words

[4] See “Oppose Fascist Rock Star’s US Tour
with the Truth – Part 1,” by Jared Israel, The Emperor’s New Clothes, at

[5] See “Two English translations of Croatian rock star Thompson’s ‘Alas my people’/‘E moj narode,’ with commentary,” at

[6] The ‘Thompson’ concert in Amsterdam, which had been scheduled for November 22, 2003, was canceled by the local concert hall provider following the protests of Jewish and Sinti (‘Gypsy’) organizations. The next day the tour organizer found an alternative location in Rotterdam. The Anti-Discrimination Agency for Rotterdam (RADAR) joined the protests. Rotterdam’s Mayor, in consultation with the police, decided to prohibit Perković from performing while allowing his band to play. When, in violation of the agreement, Perković went on stage to address the public, the police intervened, told Perković he had to leave, and removed him from the room, not permitting him to reenter. On November 25, 2003 Perković gave an “exclusive” interview to Slobodna Dalmacija at Frankfurt airport, en route to Croatia, in which he blamed his banning on ‘the Jews,’ comparing himself to Jesus, whose death he also blamed on ‘the Jews.’ (Demonstrating that once a man succumbs to Ustasha-adoration, he will rapidly decline, soon engaging in public displays of antisemitism, and, eventually, immodesty.)

Here is a rough translation of what Perković told Slobodna Dalmacija on November 25, 2003:

“ ‘I have nothing against Jews, but we know that even Jesus Christ had nothing against them and they crucified him all the same, so why not me, a little ordinary man,’ Thompson stressed.”

[Original text in Serbo-Croatian:]
‘Nemam ništa protiv Židova, ali znamo da ni Isus Krist nije imao ništa protiv njih, pa su ga svejedno razapeli, a kamoli neće mene, malog običnog čovjeka,’ ističe Thompson.”

Perković’s slanders can be read in full in Serbo-Croatian in “Nizozemska policija Thompsonu zabranila koncerte! Thompson: Za sve su krivi Židovi,” (rough translation: “Dutch police banned Thompson concerts! Thompson: Blame it all on the Jews”) by Marijana Kasalo, Slobodna Dalmacija, 25 November 2003, at

[7] See “Papal Bull: Mr. Ratzinger Pretends to Oppose Antisemitism,” by Jared Israel, The Emperor’s New Clothes, at

[8] Article 24 of the 1964 “Palestinian National Charter” states:

“Article 24: This Organization [i.e., the Palestine Liberation Organization – PLO] does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, organizational, political and financial fields”.

– “The Palestinian National Charter, (Al-Mithaq Al-Kawmee Al-Philisteeni); Adopted in 1964 by the 1st Palestinian Conference,” English translation published on the Internet page of the Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations at

The above-quoted text was removed from the PLO charter when it was rewritten in 1968, i.e., after Israeli forces drove Jordan and Egypt from Gaza and the West Bank of the Jordan River during the June 1967 war. So if you search the second (and current) charter, written in 1968, you won’t find it. The 1968 charter is at

After 1967, Arab propaganda declared that the West Bank and Gaza rightly constituted a Palestinian Arab state, whose independence (!) had been cruelly violated by Israel. Hence Jared’s ironic reference to “a movable state.”

[9] To read an official Vatican press release confirming that in 1994 the PLO was installed in its own “office of representation at the Holy See, with its own director” go to

For confirmation that the Vatican made recognition of Israel conditional on Israel endorsing the PLO as its ‘peace partner,” go to

Regarding the Vatican’s public request that Arafat meet Pope John Paul II in 1982, go to 

[10] See “Hezbollah’s TV Station, Al Manar, Broadcasts Medieval Antisemitic Hate Stories,” at

[11] In case you are not familiar with these names, Ante Starčević was the founder of a Croatian nationalist movement that, disastrously for Yugoslavia, based its appeal on the propagation of a) hatred (especially of Serbs) and b) a fantasy history of Croatia.  Starčević co-founded the Croatian Party of Rights (the “rights” were those of the Croatian state, not of ordinary people), which was later led by Ante Pavelić, giving birth to the Croatian Ustasha, which, as Nazi Germany’s junior partner, propagated religious hatred as well as Nazi-type mystical racism, while it hacked, shot, burned and tortured its way through the Serbian, Jewish and Roma populations of Croatia, the Krajina and Bosnia during World War II.

[12] Here is the article in Serbo-Croatian that appeared in Vecernji List under the picture of clerical-Fascist leader Anto Đapić and the pope, on July 5, 2007:

[Text of article accompanying Đapić-pope photo-op starts here]

OSIJEK Predsjednik HSP-a i gradonačelnik Osijeka Anto Đapić na Klinici za kirurgiju Kliničke bolnice Osijek danas će biti operiran, odnosno bit će mu izvađeni žučni kamenci.

U bolnicu je primljen jučer kako bi se obavile sve pripremne radnje za operaciju, koju će obaviti ugledni osječki kirurg prim. dr. Damir Kovačić. Đapić je, pak, neposredno prije odlaska u bolnicu, za boravka u Rimu bio na općoj audijenciji kod Svetog Oca Benedikta XVI. Papi je tom prigodom predao sliku Ivana Lackovića Croate “Zima” te ga pozvao da posjeti Osijek i Hrvatsku.

U posjet, tijekom kojega je primio papin blagoslov, Đapić je otišao na poziv vatikanskog dužnosnika nadbiskupa Alberta Tricaria [sic!], koji je nedavno, na njegov poziv, posjetio Osijek. (Ž. R. K.)

– “Đapiću blagoslov pape Benedikta prije operacije,” Vecernji List, July 5, 2007. Originally posted at
Now archived at

[Text of article accompanying Đapić-pope photo-op ends here]

Note: Vecernji List misspelled the name of Archbishop Antonio Tricarico, the Official of the Vatican Secretariat of State, emeritus, who escorted Đapić from Osijek to Rome.

The Vecernji List article was also posted on the website of the Croatian Party of Rights (Hrvatska stranka prava – HSP) at
Now archived at


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